A Few of My Card Magic Performances

[EminemBase]

So is porn. Would you want your daughter growing up to be a pornstar?

Honestly, to me, my son aspiring to be a magician is even more embarrassing than that.

First of all, no not all people who practice magic think it's the most awe-inspiring art form and you seriously are a retard... a big retard,to be dimissing something with so much intrigue and merit in its technique and even just as a visual art alone, what "magicians" have youa ctually seen?

Blaine? And some other complete American fucktards who are the equivalent of Soulja Boy to hip-hop... this really is like a metal fan who's heard about 3 Jay-Z songs and that latest Lil Wayne thing going ALL RAP FUCKING SUCKS MAN, ALL THEY DO IS TALK, HOW IS THAT MUSIC.

I'd imagine that with your dismissive attitude and high level of ignorance that you struggle to get women and so have had a deep and detailed study of porn, by yourself. I doubt that you've watched even a moderately talented magician... ever though, to be making such sweeping, broad, uninformed, silly statements about something you know nothing about but which have a fortune-cookie set of one liners and ridiculous assumptions about.

How the fuck does THIS look... or how is it 'embarrassing'... if you're going to say because he's pretending to do something that's not really happening... well no shit, if you take that stance then all of fiction is embarrassing. There is an incredible amount of skill and nuance and consideration in every moment and movement, everything is considered, it IS an art form and yes some magicians are cheesy and smug, some are awful, some aren't even entertaining... but I seriously doubt you've even allowed for a moment's doubt or any level of modesty such as "hm, well I don't like it but know basically nothing about it and haven't ever seen much of it, so maybe I should reserve judgement" in your tiny brain.

[EminemBase]

Do you still practice EmBase?

My magic tricks are gay AF tbh.

Um, not really. I haven't put a deck down since I was about 11 lmao, and I'm 23 now but, I don't practice properly atm. I do it for the love of the technique and the progression and the detail and the classic routines though... not interested in doing it professionally or performing on people now.

and there's whole sub sections of styles of... well, card magic in particular that are just the complete opposite of what Slik is implying and which the average person who knows nothing about it has never seen. ANd I'm not saying they should, but to blindly say MAGIC IS X when the public has been exposed to such a shitty and tiny minority of it... that's just such a stupid thing to do.

Just like... I hate what I've heard of metal. But I don't say metal isn't music or all metal is shit, because I don't know, I've never explored it, it just never grabbed me. But I'm sure metal fans would consider the bands I've heard shit too...

Real, decent magic is elegant and... layers of beautiful moves and moments of visual amazement, not some cheeseball in a top hat performing on kids or some yawnworthy, cringing American twat in the street doing 'levitation' by standing on one foot from an angle.

The commercialzation of it and what people think of as magic is... nonsense.

Slik - you'd consider thisthe same lowly level as porn would you? And answer seriously, all personal hatred for each other out the window a minute... are you seriously telling me you watch that and are not taken aback on any level. That doesn't look good or seem impressive to you? You don't think there's many skills working at once and a great deal of thought behind that? I mean... you'd be embarrassed if your son did this on somebody would you?

I think not even being able to see the intellectual curiosity and merit in it shows a total lack of imagination and analysis. Even if you hate whoever is performing it or aren't impressed by what you see... there's so many intellectually interesting elements to even understanding it such as what can be achieved through misdirection, and how to misdirect and exploit predictable off-key moments... and even the realization and noticing of just how predictable people are in their actions, guesswork and reactions to the same things... and on and on and on. You could even look at it from the outside, just the psychology of it and it has endless avenues which can benefit your mind.

Your statements (on it based on very likely watching a few awful TV magicians and forming a perception of what it is, who does it and why)... are just ridiculous.

[EminemBase]

I always enjoyed watching magic since I was a kid, its very entertaining man and your tricks were pretty dope

If you play poker i'd hate to play against u man, I bet you're a good player if u play...you got that poker face.

I'm actually going to a magic show in Niagara Falls at the end of Aug, it'll be pretty cool to watch it live.

Oh and post more if u have any

I never went to any magic shows, well I've seen DB live, was incredible.

I have a video of me stacking cards for poker, it's like 6 years old though, my handling is kinda clumsy, but it's aiyt. It's here yo.

And here's one more. I deleted a lot of my videos... too old, painful to watch due to me being so clunky with handling. I'll get back in to it soon though and try to push myself to a new level.

[Arrinef]

thats dope embase, i used to have this rubber thumb id hide this mini handkerchief in and freak people out.

[SliK]

EminemBase there is no personal hatred from me towards you at all, I think you're a great poster.

Believe it or not I have seen most of Derren Brown's routines up until a few years ago. The problem I find (and I've already touched on this) is that he takes it SO FUCKING SERIOUSLY. This is the equivalent of fucking Twilight to me. It's all just praying on incredibly stupid and suggestible people. It's total trash but people take it so fucking seriously and swear its amazing. I find it incredibly boring to be honest. And honestly, way fucking cornier than sparkling vampires.

That said, I'm not watching any of your links. I know they'll just bore me like all "magic" does. May e when I get home from work/uni

[EminemBase]

EminemBase there is no personal hatred from me towards you at all, I think you're a great poster.

Believe it or not I have seen most of Derren Brown's routines up until a few years ago. The problem I find (and I've already touched on this) is that he takes it SO FUCKING SERIOUSLY. This is the equivalent of fucking Twilight to me. It's all just praying on incredibly stupid and suggestible people. It's total trash but people take it so fucking seriously and swear its amazing. I find it incredibly boring to be honest. And honestly, way fucking cornier than sparkling vampires.

That said, I'm not watching any of your links. I know they'll just bore me like all "magic" does. May e when I get home from work/uni

He doesn't take it so seriously though...

That just shows me that you CAN'T have watched much of him at all.

He's actually one of the funniest magicians about...

And if you'd actually watch this clip for example, you'd see that. He has an awesome sense of humour... there is no way you've watched his routines lmao, because if you really had, and even if you didn't find him funny... you'd know for sure that he constantly debunks, sometimes genuinely explains what he's doing and why, downplays his abilities, is self-deprecating and regularly takes the piss out of the perception of himself.

But when it comes to some routines - he is very serious, and he has to be... and I know this from performing certain things on people... every routine is... I mean, different routines require different presentation or tones to get people in to certain presumptions and just to give the actual tricks some 'feel' to them. And in the same way a battle rapper pretty much HAS to be a badass by default in his rhymes (I mean you can take the piss out of yourself like Em has too, but in general) - somebody performing a magic routine, in general, has to be commanding and controlling. Because obviously... magic is not scientifically testable, it relies on exploiting misdirection, timing, people's presumptions, gullibility, inability to see things you're untrained to see and many other factors... so he has to 'get into character' with some stuff in order for it to work how it does.

By "all magic", what magic are you referring to by chance? Could you name a magician or two which you've seen which bores you? As if it's any mainstream American magician... yeah, they bore me and most people who are seriously in to magic as well. They ruin it, cheapen it and try to make it something it's not... good magicians always downplay their abilities to heighten misdirection, where as people like Blaine and Angel genuinely want people to just think they're Jesus, and they're some of the worst performers I have ever seen. I'd barely even call them magic, so if you're referring to people like them... you'll have to do better than that, and you haven't seen enough to say 'all magic' lmao, because if that is what you mean... that's so far away from a good magician and good magic and different in tone and style it's unreal. It really is like Soulja Boy compared to Eminem, and somebody listening to Soulja Boy and Wayne and saying "all hip-hop is terrible, just listen to it...".

He is hilarious in his live show, and is constantly sarcastic, and even plays on the seriousness of, often playing it down, referrnig to what he does as "smug guesswork"... how is that taking it so seriously lmao... he actually views magic as a silly introverted boy's need to impress people, which it is at its root, and which is why he tries to make it more about an experience than just showing off.

PS. He also intentionally plays on smugness so that people want to catch him out more. Trying to catch out a magician is the easiest way for a magician to fool somebody... because when we think of catching someone out with a choice or this or that... we all pretty much do the same things. So if a magician can get somebody in that state... they watch harder but watch the wrong things, and then in offbeat moments when they relax from such intense watching, they provide almost total freedom in misdirection; and, people do the same things when trying to catch people out, so it makes them more predictable. It's things like this I find interesting about magic and which Derren does too, it's interesting I think psychologically... the manipulation factor, learning about how predictable certain things are and how you can exploit them to make something unreal look real...

I really don't know what you mean about him taking it so seriously though, in fact, if I had to credit him with one thing I'd say it would be taking the seriousness out of it, in terms of... GENUINELY just saying you're A MAGICIAN and refusing to ever go near the area of explanation or discussing technique with a spectator... he's the opposite of that, he constantly invites you in a game of cat-and-mouse with him, making it a constant battle between him and the spectator, but is always playing games and betting money and explaining some things, lying about others... inviting you to figure out which; he's made it real world rather than "look at me the mystical man with strange powers who you must admire and clap for as I do things I've practiced in a cave for 200 years", he speaks to people like how you do in real-life, he has a conversation. He takes the self-seriousness out of it.

And I feel bad for the insults since you were nice, I recant them lmao. Let's keep it civil then, but seriously just watch that ONE clip even, you'll see the real Derren there. His TV work is usually darker and more serious, but on-stage... he is thrilling. And what he does there is fairly simple but the way he dresses it up and presents it is just beautiful. And he's really funny and subtle.

[SliK]

I find your posts a little annoying and Condescending, you don't need to explain to me what he's doing or how he's doing it. I am not a moron in any sense of the word. In fact I am very intelligent if its not too smug a thing to say.

I don't mean that he takes magic seriously, I mean he takes himself seriously. He thinks he is a big deal. Like OHHHH WATCH ME DEBUNK THIS PSYCHIC - DID YOU GUYS REALIZE THAT PSYCHICS AREN'T REAL?? GUYS THEY ARE ACTUALLY FRAUDS, I AM THE FIRST TO DISCOVER THIS AND I AM GOING TO CONVINCE YOU!!"

Like, no shit idiot. It really doesn't take a fucking genius to understand that some people are exceptional at reading human behavior. In fact, I would consider myself very good at this. And to me, the idea of a Derren Brown in this world is as repulsive as a psychic would be to Derren Brown.

I don't think I'm explaining this very well. And I promise I have seen a lot of his stuff. A workmate put me onto him a couple of years ago and this guy was absolutely raving about him and how good he is.

Watch the video of him predicting lottery numbers - that is fucking bullshit. There is no "reading human behaviour" or anything in that video. It is literally just him lying for an hour. Then he won't reveal the lotto numbers before they're drawn because "IT'S ILLEGAL TO ANNOUNCE THEM BEFORE THEY ARE DRAWN" - LIKE WHAT HE IS DOING IS AT ALL ACCURATE OR REAL. That's what I get from him. I know he's not magic, I know he's not psychic, he's just another asshole.
I've seen him do his thing where he walks into a jewelry store and hands over bits of paper instead of cash
I've seen him go up against "psychics" and do better

Honestly, I've seen a lot of him and I still hate the cunt. I hate him probably a little irrationally, the same way someone might hate Drake just for being on Young Money. But that's because I don't respect the craft at all.

[EminemBase]

^ One of the dumbest posts I've ever read here. Will respond in a mo.

[SliK]

Yeah, ok. Look its not like you're going to convince me that I actually do in fact like him

I'm not attacking you but you're obviously getting quite defensive. It's really nothing personal, though.

[Eedee]

EmBase, those are so fucking cool. I used to practice sleight of hand and coin magic back when I was early teens up until I was like 15 or 16. I found it to be captivating and I love the look on people's faces when you pull it off and you can tell they're trying to figure it out.

I also did some simple disappearing tricks with small objects. Like a baseball and shit. But for the fucking life of me I can't do it anymore haha.

What do you think about Criss Angel? I think he has great sleight of hand prowess but his bigger tricks are too cheesy and shit. Although he does some cool shit.

[SliK]

I love the look on people's faces

Like this?

[EminemBase]

EmBase, those are so fucking cool. I used to practice sleight of hand and coin magic back when I was early teens up until I was like 15 or 16. I found it to be captivating and I love the look on people's faces when you pull it off and you can tell they're trying to figure it out.

I also did some simple disappearing tricks with small objects. Like a baseball and shit. But for the fucking life of me I can't do it anymore haha.

What do you think about Criss Angel? I think he has great sleight of hand prowess but his bigger tricks are too cheesy and shit. Although he does some cool shit.

From what I have seen... I think he's abysmal.

I hate big flashy magicians...

I like magicians who downplay what they do, take the piss out of it as they're doing it, challenge the spectator; have a real conversation and STILL completely baffle them...

I guess it's the equivalent of, in hip-hop... like, prime-Em, his mutlies... it didn't feel like he was trying to write multies. It felt like they were happening, contingently... and that's a magical level of talent he got to because he practiced SO much more than every one involved...

Compared to some underground guys who are so much more face value and trying SO hard to sound impressive but actually using very obvious words and repetitive thoughts... Chris Angel is that to me. He's trying so hard to be the role of a big impressive spectacle that it feels lame.

Where as DB... it's like he's having an intelligent discussion and putting incredible events under the microscope of every day context, and treating it like every day conversation and moments, rather than AND NOW, WATTCH THIIIS, I SHALL DO THISSSS and just trying so hard to look impressive.

@Slik, I cba to write a book response to that initial post like I was going to, think what you want fam and you're right, I can't convince you that you like him. However, you said you're not a moron... well, first of all, you're trying so hard to prove to me you're not stupid... but you are a moron IF you don't understand that no, you don't know the magnitude of Derren's skill and his techniques as a magician. I DO, as I've been doing it most my life and actually, yes, with some things I would need to tell you what he's doing - I'm not talking about the 'psychological manipulation' or things he dresses up as that, I mean routines he's built around really ingenious subtle uses of classical magic technique which eliminates choice but looks perfectly like a choice... not brainwashing or 'control', just really clever lateral ideas which give an illusion of choice but which are in fact heavily planned and acted around and talked around to make seem natural... no, you don't know those things, and I could show you tricks of his where you have no fucking clue at all what he's doing...

I'm not saying you have to like him, but some of the things you've said such as him just praying on susceptible people... lol, no, and that is moronic. He came-up as a close-up magician. Close-up magicians do things that will work on 90% of people, they have to work on everybody because you never know who you may be doing a trick on... Derren is an incredibly skilled magician, creator of new technique and routines and one of the best showmen in the history of it... and for you to know NOTHING about it and dismiss it all as nonsense or compare it to porn is incredibly arrogant and also shows your youth. You're so up your own ass that you think your perspective is more realistic than the reality. I would never call an entire hobby or art talentless unless I had a basic understanding of the fundamentals of it... to make that call. You don't have even a basic understanding of basic magic or know what goes in to it. So it's a really stupid thing to dismiss one of the beat at it, when all you're doing is selectively judging some moments of him that annoy you.

And again, this 'taking himself so seriously' concept shows you can't have watched... or weren't paying attention or didn't judge his character very accurately. As I've said, interviewers have fawned over what he's done to him and he responds by downplaying what he does as 'smug guesswork', I don't see how somebody who constantly takes the piss out of himself and his flaws and downplays his entire art which he's taken decades to master... I don't see how somebody who does that takes himself too seriously. Where I live, on planet Earth, with humans... that's the exact opposite.

Blaine takes himself too seriously, as do complete cocks like Angel. DB is a very normal, sarcastic, smart but jokey, self-depreciating British guy, who happens to be brilliant at what he does.

So go ahead and dislike Derren, who cares. But you don't know magic and don't know nearly enough to say it doesn't involve skill or an incredible amount of hard-work and thought-out ideas and real psychological analysis, the scope of which you have no fucking clue of. So try being less ignorant and realizing that you don't know it all, and in this instance, know almost nothing.

[Eedee]

@SliK

More like this:



@EmBase

You make a good point. I have no doubt he uses camera tricks for some of his bigger illusions (but hey, that would fall under the "illusion" definition though, I suppose)... Anyway, some of his sleight of hand tricks he does very person-to-person. And as you say, he has some conversations and stuff. Then does the trick. *shrug* I gotta look up some Derren Brown videos.

[EminemBase]

^ Yeah but the thing is... that's why stage magic or magic with any kind of ellaborate set-up has never impressed me. As I may as well be watching a movie for special-effects... I don't feel a sense of awe and amazement at seeing a well-done CGI effect in a movie. I just think "technology is great, and that's cool".

But that's not magic and doesn't feel like it. If a magician HAS to use this big giant specific 'box' or HIS bags and HIS table or whatever the props are... then the sense of magic has ALREADY been completely drained and killed for me. As it's only magic if you have the illusion that what you just saw was fair and real and could have happened in any circumstance to anybody, that's what creates the bafflement... the sense of "what the fuck... I gave him that coin, that's a normal coin... how and what the fuck"...

Compared to "oh, a $200k prop with mirrors on it... okay"... I also dislike stage magicians for that reason; they may as well be actors in a play or a movie to me... it's more theatre than magic. Because rarely is the stage magician even using any kind of skill... he's just performing something that somebody in the audience could be taught within 5 mins because all the work is done by a big elaborate prop... so they're taking all this credit and sense of creating this when they do little apart from prance about and play the part.

Where as if you see an incredible card magician do something unbelievable, with your deck, right in front of your face... HE'S done that, and it looked like an every day event or physics or something which is normally impossible... being possible, under the guise of normalacy. If you have a huge stage and mirrors and infinite money... those things allow for anything to look real, and you know that going in, so any sense of amazement is completely lost to me.

Sleight of hand is beautiful, sleight of giant boxes and mirrors is tedious yo.

[SliK]

@Slik, I cba to write a book response to that initial post like I was going to, think what you want fam and you're right, I can't convince you that you like him. However, you said you're not a moron... well, first of all, you're trying so hard to prove to me you're not stupid... but you are a moron IF you don't understand that no, you don't know the magnitude of Derren's skill and his techniques as a magician. I DO, as I've been doing it most my life and actually, yes, with some things I would need to tell you what he's doing - I'm not talking about the 'psychological manipulation' or things he dresses up as that, I mean routines he's built around really ingenious subtle uses of classical magic technique which eliminates choice but looks perfectly like a choice... not brainwashing or 'control', just really clever lateral ideas which give an illusion of choice but which are in fact heavily planned and acted around and talked around to make seem natural... no, you don't know those things, and I could show you tricks of his where you have no fucking clue at all what he's doing...

Woah wait a minute... Do you genuinely believe that is unique to magic? Like, seriously, are you going to claim that in the same paragraph you call me a moron?

lollllllllll

I'm not saying you have to like him, but some of the things you've said such as him just praying on susceptible people... lol, no, and that is moronic. He came-up as a close-up magician. Close-up magicians do things that will work on 90% of people, they have to work on everybody because you never know who you may be doing a trick on... Derren is an incredibly skilled magician, creator of new technique and routines and one of the best showmen in the history of it... and for you to know NOTHING about it and dismiss it all as nonsense or compare it to porn is incredibly arrogant and also shows your youth. You're so up your own ass that you think your perspective is more realistic than the reality. I would never call an entire hobby or art talentless unless I had a basic understanding of the fundamentals of it... to make that call. You don't have even a basic understanding of basic magic or know what goes in to it. So it's a really stupid thing to dismiss one of the beat at it, when all you're doing is selectively judging some moments of him that annoy you.

@ The bolded part: I don't deny he's the best magician. I also don't deny that he's certainly created a new lane in the field which alone (in any field) is impressive. I don't deny he is good at what he does, or his talent, or his ingenuity. I haven't said anything of the sort in fact. I just don't fucking like him, because the shit he claims to do is BS. I don't like watching something and have him claim it is more than it really is. despite what you may think (or want to believe) he does this. He thinks he is a big deal, because people like you perpetuate that. To me it isn't impressive in the slightest and I have seen literally hours and hours of his footage.

@The underlined part: Who are you to say I have no understanding of magic? I will be the first to admit I don't have the BEST understanding, cos I didn't dedicate my entire youth to it lmao, but I understand enough to know that in general I don't enjoy it. Like, I understand the amount of work and dedication they put into it. I understand the utter devotion you would need to put into it to get to his level and I'm not denying any of it. I just think magicians in general are so fucking overrated and he is the most acclaimed one of all so obviously I think he is the MOST overrated. Aside from talent, I hate what I have seen of HIM. Whether it's just a character for the stage or not, I hate him. I just don't like the cunt one bit. I'm not being selective about it at all, I've seen a shitload of his work and nothing at all made me go "OMFG I want to do this myself, it's awesome, this guy is amazing" etc etc and it's not because I don't understand it you dickhead, it's because my personal taste is different to yours. I also think aspiring to be a great magician is fucking stupid and as fucking dumb a career choice as porn. At least if you look good, there's money to be made in porn. I don't think it's that unusual an analogy. Neither art is respected by society in general, no matter what you think. I mean, sure, men like hot chicks who fuck on camera and people in general might like watching a magic show... but nobody wants to hear their kid say they want to do either of those things.

Seriously.

And again, this 'taking himself so seriously' concept shows you can't have watched... or weren't paying attention or didn't judge his character very accurately. As I've said, interviewers have fawned over what he's done to him and he responds by downplaying what he does as 'smug guesswork', I don't see how somebody who constantly takes the piss out of himself and his flaws and downplays his entire art which he's taken decades to master... I don't see how somebody who does that takes himself too seriously. Where I live, on planet Earth, with humans... that's the exact opposite.

Anyone who gets on stage to sold out arenas take themselves seriously. Obviously (as we both know) the dude isn't a moron. he's not going to go "Yeah, I am fucking amazing. i'm smarter than you and all the idiots who watch me and have no idea what I'm doing. Those guys, which is 99% of you by the way, are a joke to me. I pray on you people and I have become a millionaire because of it".

Is that what you'd expect if he took himself seriously? Lmao? And because he downplays it he doesn't take himself seriously? Do you think when Kendrick Lamar says "don't call my album a classic, it's not a classic" do you think he doesn't take himself/his album/the art seriously?

Do you also believe everything you read?

lol

Blaine takes himself too seriously, as do complete cocks like Angel. DB is a very normal, sarcastic, smart but jokey, self-depreciating British guy, who happens to be brilliant at what he does.

So go ahead and dislike Derren, who cares. But you don't know magic and don't know nearly enough to say it doesn't involve skill or an incredible amount of hard-work and thought-out ideas and real psychological analysis, the scope of which you have no fucking clue of. So try being less ignorant and realizing that you don't know it all, and in this instance, know almost nothing.

DB is the initials of both Derren Brown and David Blaine , please understand that when you abbreviate names in future, particularly if you've just referred to the other in the paragraph before lol.

Like I said, I haven't called him talentless, I've called his claims fraudulent ("I can predict lotto numbers") but I never said that he has no talent.

Oh and yeah, I'd have no clue about psychological analysis, I only study it at a university level (and I'm fucking killing it, FYI). I haven't dedicated 8 years of my life to card tricks, but I'm almost at that level...