Reflections on violent children...Part II

[Emadyville]

A continuation of the previous thread. After discussing the definition of "anti-social behavior" I'll elaborate with more information from the book...

The first signs of altruism and sympathy for others usually appear during toddlerhood, which supplants the infants inborn narcissism. Psychopaths, on the other hand, make it to adulthood without ever developing the capacity for empathy and sympathy. One thing they do well though, is imitating these characteristics.

One thing that comes to mind in cases of children and their behavior is the famous concept of nature versus nurture or genetics versus environment. To put this simply, in cases of children having antisocial behavior tendencies, it's a combination of both.

One thing our professor has stressed is that there is something definitely wrong with these kids who shoot up schools, or grow up to be serial killers: they face and deal with things others have and continue to deal with, certain people just don't react like others when faced with these things. Kip Kindler was 15 when he killed his parents, went into school (the day after being expelled for having a gun in his locker) and shot 28 people, 2 of which died.

His parents were teachers, he grew up in a nice neighborhood, in a nice house, and lived a pretty well-off lifestyle, nothing fancy, more so upper-middle class. We had to watch an hour and a half video on his life and the shootings, and it seems like what our professor said told a lot about this kid, he dealt with things that a lot of normal people deal with (he had trouble in school early, was small and got picked on, got in trouble at school, and got his heart broken), he just couldn't handle these things.

There were warning signs, signs that should have been noticed, he even saw a psychiatrist and was on prozac, but once his parents thought he was good and the psychiatrist said he didn't have to meet with them anymore, his parents stopped the medication. The signs were very clear: he wanted guns, asked for them and eventually got his parents to buy them, he stole CD's from a store and got caught, kicked a kid in school and was suspended for 2 days, he was caught with books on how to make bombs, told his psychiatrist that he made bombs with gas and exploded them in a quarry when he was very angry, and some other minor things like hanging out with the wrong crowd.

It seems that all these cases of kids who shoot their classmates have very clear signs something is wrong with them, yet no one realizes how bad it is, and their parents always think it is just a phase or don't believe it's as bad as it is.

One sidenote on something interesting I learned in class was the difference between a psychopath and a sociopath: A psychopath is someone who disregards laws, rules, morals, ethics, and the common good of society (including their family and friends) and are often serial killers (90% of serial killers are psychopaths), while sociopaths only follow and adhere to the "rules" of his or her "family", for example the Manson family or a Mob family, and outside of their close knit circle they do not care about societies rules or laws.

Any questions feel free to ask

[AliJack]

I like it bro, its interesting as fuck, seems abit too short, but if it was any longer I might not have read it all.. got a fucked up attention span lmao..

he was very anger

might wanna fix that bro

[Emadyville]

I like it bro, its interesting as fuck, seems abit too short, but if it was any longer I might not have read it all.. got a fucked up attention span lmao..

he was very anger

might wanna fix that bro

Thanks, and yeah I don't want to make them too long, I make it long enough so it's something hopefully people will read, and any questions that people have I will elaborate more and be more thorough, check part I you'll see what I mean, and I fixed that, thanks

[Tash8]

i'm watching a house episode where the person being treated is a psychopath

[Emadyville]

i'm watching a house episode where the person being treated is a psychopath

very good, i'm assuming he was picked on for being small/short or for being fat/unathletic, either had great parents and a wealthy household, or terrible parents and a poor household, or some combination of those lol

[Emadyville]

I really enjoy reading these. Me and some classmates were called down to the office and informed we could take AP Psychology next year and I'm defientely considering it. This stuff always interested me but Idk if being a psychiatrist would be right since I am already a wreck and they have the highest suicide rate of any proffesion. Could you reccommend any good books on the subject?

Subject for what exactly

Psychology, this ^ stuff I'm writing about violent children, serial killers, mass murders, or whatever else?

Just let me know

[Emadyville]

All the books I'll suggest I have read, so you know it's firsthand and I'm not just telling you random books

Ok this is probably the best book since this the book I'm currently using, which is written by my professor, and she is one of the best in the world at this shit:
Inside the Minds of Serial Killers:Why They Kill-Katherine M. Ramsland

The best book for one of the most interesting serial killers:
Zodiac:Unmasked-Robert Graysmith
I read this twice, and the movie with Jake Gyllenhol is based off of this book, everything is 100% accurate in the movie to this book, though this book has about 600 times more info than the movie itself.

Some great books on motive, serial killers, etc. are by the same author:
The Cases That Haunt Us-John Douglas (On JonBenet Ramsey, the Lindenberg kidnapping, Zodiac, Lizzie Borden, Black Dahlia, the Boston Strangler-mostly unsolved cases)

The Anatomy of Motive-John Douglas

Mindhunter: Inside the FBI's Most Elite Serial Crime Unit-John Douglas

Obsession-John Douglas

If you want just a great overview of some fucked up serial killers this is a great book, just details what they did though, it's not more than that for each person, but there are a lot of people in here and it's interesting as hell:
Encyclopedia of Serial Killers-Brian Lane

This is a good book if Jack The Ripper interests you, the only thing is she claims she knows who the killer is, but nevertheless this is a good read to gain a grasp on the murders (I was actually in London and took a jack the ripper tour, saw where he wrote in chalk on a grocery store, where the one body was found, and also the small place where the last woman was found):
Portrait of a Killer:Jack the Ripper-Case Closed by Patricia Cornwell

I hope this helped, best place to find these books is the library or on amazon, the John Douglas ones are all in paperback so they should be real cheap. Need anything else let me know

[Sophie]

^ i'm definitely looking at those books you recommend, i have this thing about serial killers & i could watch documentaries and read about them all day, i love looking into their minds, if i went back to school i'd definitely take up psychology.

[Emadyville]

So overall this behavior can come from any family, in any status. It's just the matter of how different people cope/react to different situations?

Exactly. Kip Kinkle came from an upper-middle class family with great values, he had a very popular sister, his parents were both teachers, and because of this, it had a lot to do with why he ended up killing his parents and shooting up his school.

Had he lived in a lower-middle class family, with blue collar parents and a not-so-popular sister, he probably would have dealt with his shortcomings much better, but that wasn't the case. Or even more simply put, a great example my professor used was, if Kip had been 6'4" and muscular, would any of his personal issues even been there (because he was small he was bullied, felt outta place, etc.).

The other kid (I forget his name) grew up in a lower-middle class family, his parents were getting divorced after 25 years of marriage, and his mom had told him she was going to kill herself. He eventually killed 4 students in a prayer group.

So as you can see, 2 kids from completely different upbringings (yet both were picked on and had their girlfriend "break their heart"), they both went to school and shot/killed students. Yet the kid with parents who were married and successful, killed them; the kid with fucked up parents did not kill them.

It's all based on how we react to specific things in our lives. Which is why the whole "movies, music, video games, etc." cause kids to do things is completely wrong, it's based on situations. Kip watched Romeo and Juliet in class as every class had before him, and he was the only one who came back to school and killed students. It did not affect other kids the same way. In addition, had he not broken up with his girlfriend would this have been the case? My professor says most likely not. Had he seen the movie two years later would things have been the same? Again, most likely not. It is all situational.

Also can it be inherited?

Not exactly, but the best answer put simply, is no. Mental disorders are not passed onto children, but mental disorders can cause, if the circumstances are played out correctly, can possibly lead to mental disorders in children.

For example, a mother who has a disorder, whether antisocial or simply depression, doing drugs (including prescription drugs, as in ones that specifically treat disorders, not like drugs for a cold or stuff like that) such as alcohol (excessively) or hard drugs (heroin, cocaine) can affect the brain of her child. This does not alter it in any sense that, because she was doing whatever drug, the baby has been affected in a way that they now have mental problems. It could affect the brain, where as I said, can cause them to live a life where their environment and physiological traits make them handle situations differently (such as the kids previously talked about) and make them become antisocial.

Another example would be if a parent is unstable, abusive, addicted to drugs or alcohol. This again, is on basis of how the child handles things. In the book, the author talks about children that are abused being violent, but not because it's how they were treated, because it's what they know. These actions and traits parents might possess, also leads to how the child handles their situation, kind of like the kid whose mother said she was going to kill herself. That affected him negatively, and because he was already antisocial, it was probably one reason he ended up killing students.

So mental disorders that cause children to eventually become school shooters is not something inherited through genetics, but can be inherited through the parents actions, in which they cause the child to react, and if they cannot handle the situation they may become "psychotic" or have the antisocial tendencies these other cases have shown.

I hope that helped

Anything else you wanna know please ask

[Emadyville]

Thank you for that read and explanation. Very intriguing to read.

I'm glad you enjoyed, Part III this weekend

[VenomBlackViper]

A psychopath is someone who disregards laws, rules, morals, ethics, and the common good of society (including their family and friends)

lol this sounds so much like me.